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BARBED OR BARBLESS?

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BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by HAPPYANGLERALEX on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:40 pm

Hi, I do a lot of carping, some lakes are barbed some are barbless, so why the difference?

which hook, best looks after the carps welfare, and why?

as both cannot be right, which one in your experence is best for our carp?

be happy go carping Smile

HAA
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by chris63 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:57 am

This topic has been debated to death over the years. From every debate I've read and from discussing with fellow anglers it seems to come down to personal belief on which type of hook does less damage to a fish. I've yet to see any scientific evidence to support one or the other and until we get this the differing opinions will continue.
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by HAPPYANGLERALEX on Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:33 pm

chris63 wrote:This topic has been debated to death over the years. From every debate I've read and from discussing with fellow anglers it seems to come down to personal belief on which type of hook does less damage to a fish. I've yet to see any scientific evidence to support one or the other and until we get this the differing opinions will continue.

hi, a barb is designed to go in-but not come out without tearing tissue, ie spears, arrows, whale spears, hooks.

the barb has been used for 100,000 years.

my own experience is simple, barbed hook in finger, could not get out, removed at local walk in.
carp in landing net, barbed hook snagging on netting causing problems.
unhooking carp difficult as barb makes larger wound coming out than going in.
if carp snaps line it cannot easly get rid of the barbed hook designed to stay put/in.

that's why I now only use barbless and non of the above now happens. [fox arma point BARBLESS]


I honestly think barb-less are better for the carps welfare.

as for "scientific evidence" common sense can also play a part. Very Happy



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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by Kevin on Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:12 pm

I honestly believe the complete opposite. Everytime you slacken off, then the hook will lift slightly in the hole where it has penetrated and then repenetrate along a different path when pressure goes back on, thus enlarging the hole. A small microbarb offers the best of both worls, anchoring the hook in position to prevent excess movement, and removing easily when needed.
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by chris63 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:56 pm

i agree re movement in mouths of fish with barbless - seeing the fish from Drayton (a barbless water) when put into thorpe lea and the mouth damage they had i swore then never to use a barbless hook for anything but silver fish.

But as said before - some will argue one way and some the others. Commonsense is not relevant - only facts of which there are few.
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by TCarper on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:04 am

Kevin wrote:I honestly believe the complete opposite. Everytime you slacken off, then the hook will lift slightly in the hole where it has penetrated and then repenetrate along a different path when pressure goes back on, thus enlarging the hole. A small microbarb offers the best of both worls, anchoring the hook in position to prevent excess movement, and removing easily when needed.

What Kevin said, barbless hooks are not good at all for a fishes mouth. A secure hook hold will cause far less damage than a hook that can move about so much during battle. If you have to use a barbless go for something like a Gamakatsu G Hard, their shape lends itself more to going in & staying put.

More mouth damage is caused by thin diameter hook links though IMO, a 12 or 15lb braid can be like cheese wire on a small Carps mouth, a lot of the newer coated hook links are using finer & finer braids inside, these are no good on a fishes mouth in the long run, especially younger fish with softer mouths.

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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by Danny on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:49 pm

I think the barb as less movement once in and causes less damage, i think the damage is done when the angler is trying to remove a barbed hook...

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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by HAPPYANGLERALEX on Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:07 pm

Danny wrote:I think the barb as less movement once in and causes less damage, i think the damage is done when the angler is trying to remove a barbed hook...

you may be right, as a barb is designed not to come out.
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by Kevin on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:44 pm

How about commenting on the bits that disagree with you.....
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by Danny on Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:39 pm

TCARPER - More mouth damage is caused by thin diameter hook links though IMO, a 12 or 15lb braid can be like cheese wire on a small Carps mouth, a lot of the newer coated hook links are using finer & finer braids inside, these are no good on a fishes mouth in the long run, especially younger fish with softer mouths.

Gotta agree with you on this, never really thought about the diametre of braid etc, a tight braid would slice a soft mouth right open...

But i still think a lot of the damage is done by inexperienced anglers yanking and pulling at a barbed hook !

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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by HAPPYANGLERALEX on Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:08 pm

Kevin wrote:How about commenting on the bits that disagree with you.....

the main difference seems to be once the hook is in the lip/mouth a barbed hook having done some damage entering and holding, will stay put, minimising the damage already done, and on unhooking, the barb needs to reverse its entry point doing more damage?.

if there is a break off while playing the carp it will have great trouble ridding its self of the barbed hook, and any attachment.

as for the barb-less hook, entry creates minimum damage, but it may cause more damage "moving around".

as for a break off, the carp can easily gurn its mouth to release and spit out the hook, sometimes even in the landing net.


so we have a choice/decision, mine so far is barb-less.

as a test, push a barb-less hook through your finger-then a barbed one and see which does most damaged, and is less painful and easily to get out.

I know which one I would choose. Very Happy

as for hook lenghts, I agree some feel/look like cheese wire.


HAA
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by Kevin on Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:55 pm

as a test, push a barb-less hook through your finger-then a barbed one and see which does most damaged, and is less painful and easily to get out.

Spurious test though - different type of tissue for s start, and no 10mins of pulling and tugging. I was actually once sad enough to do this with a chunk of rubber ball, and the barbless did more damage internally.

Also, I find carp have little trouble ridding themselves of microbarbed hooks.
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by HAPPYANGLERALEX on Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:01 pm

Kevin wrote:
as a test, push a barb-less hook through your finger-then a barbed one and see which does most damaged, and is less painful and easily to get out.

Spurious test though - different type of tissue for s start, and no 10 mins of pulling and tugging. I was actually once sad enough to do this with a chunk of rubber ball, and the barbless did more damage internally.

Also, I find carp have little trouble ridding themselves of micro barbed hooks.

having given it much thought, I will stick to barbless.

on another point, main line of mono gives a different a flexible play but main line of braid has no "give" would this effect the hook performance? ie. pull/damage.
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by Elty on Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:57 pm

regarding the fish in thorpe lea......their mouths have been damaged by match anglers (and carp anglers) winching them in again and again and again.

just down the road from thorpe lea you have twynersh which operates a barbless hook policy (or did when i fished there) and those fish have impeccable mouths. maybe this is due to the price attracting a better calibre of angler who knows how to play a fish properly? (or maybe thats just me being a bit of a snob?)

personally i like barbless because thats how i grew up carp fishing. i prefer them from a fish safety point of view too. all the tethered fish i have ever seen have been attached to rigs with barbed hooks.

im not saying they are perfect but for me, they are the best compromise.

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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by HAPPYANGLERALEX on Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:26 pm

Elty wrote:regarding the fish in thorpe lea......their mouths have been damaged by match anglers (and carp anglers) winching them in again and again and again.

just down the road from thorpe lea you have twynersh which operates a barbless hook policy (or did when i fished there) and those fish have impeccable mouths. maybe this is due to the price attracting a better calibre of angler who knows how to play a fish properly? (or maybe thats just me being a bit of a snob?)

personally i like barbless because thats how i grew up carp fishing. i prefer them from a fish safety point of view too. all the tethered fish i have ever seen have been attached to rigs with barbed hooks.

im not saying they are perfect but for me, they are the best compromise.


yes got to agree, early man did not invent the barb to make things easy for the creature on the end.

and landing a carp on barb-less takes more skill than a carp trapped on a barb.

HAA
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by DaveS on Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:41 pm

Someone said above that barbless hooks were likely to enlarge the hole as the angler slackens off then tightens up again.

Can't think why an angler would do that. Once hooked the pressure should be constant on the fish. I'm happy using barbless or micro barbed and haven't overly damaged any fish even using braid mainline, just the tiny hook hole and that's it. I can see the need for barbed in weed. If a fish tears off through weed you may be pulling at 90 degrees to the fish and it could gain slack and shed a barbless hook, not so likely with a barb.

Just use what you are happy with or what keeps you within the fishery rules.
Like others above I agree that most mouth damage is caused by fine diameter hook lengths rather than the actual hook.

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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by Kevin on Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:35 pm

Someone said above that barbless hooks were likely to enlarge the hole as the angler slackens off then tightens up again.

Can't think why an angler would do that

Pumping fish in - no way anyone keeps a perfectly consistent pull with a lively fish and moving the rod back and forth..
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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

Post by DaveS on Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:57 pm

The only hook I ever witnessed cause excessive mouth damage was one of the early bent hooks which twisted round and hooked through twice.

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Re: BARBED OR BARBLESS?

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