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Tight lines

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Tight lines

Post by Kevin on Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:33 am

After some time of being an avid slackliner, I've been pondering tighter lines - heavy undertow and weed have made them a necessity of a couple of waters, so I've gone the whole hog and gone for the tightest, quiverlocked lines without success so far, but it's got me wondering - I used to do VERY well with the old quiverlocs....
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Re: Tight lines

Post by MooseMan on Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:27 pm

I still use this method where I can Kevin, but with 2 or even 3 flying backleads and a heavy backlead at the rod end. Springers tensioned up to the blank with the tip bent over.
The takes are fantastic, one toners with no need to strike!
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Re: Tight lines

Post by Elty on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:25 pm

this is how i started out fishing. caught what seemed like my fair share along the way.

although after seeing how line can sit up off the bottom, i have moved over to slack lines. in windy conditions i'll have them semi-slack, just enough to prevent excessive tow.

the only down side i see of slack line fishing is the lack of liners. this might be seen as good thing but i like to know that im in the right areas and that there are active fish around. otherwise i'll move.

i like fact that when the fish hit the baitrunner it almost acts like an additional bolt affect.

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Re: Tight lines

Post by Danny on Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:33 pm

I find with slack lines your pick up indication is a lot better then tight lines if using mono/glouro mainlines due to the stretch, i remember seeing a video a few years ago where the angler was using tight lines and the fish moved the baited hook and lead 6 inches before it even gave a indication on the alarms.. Also ideal if fishing a water that is crowded and lines all over the place...

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Re: Tight lines

Post by reaper on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:20 pm

Do you guys always use a running lead with slack lines, i was fishing slack with a semi fixed setup but all the takes i had seemed to be very finiky and not at all positive. i then went back to tight lines and 90% of the takers were toners.
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Re: Tight lines

Post by Elty on Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:59 am

when you say finicky takes though were you actually hooking fish still? because if you are and the hookholds are good then i guess the kind of take you get doesnt really matter.

were you catching more fish on slack lines?

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Re: Tight lines

Post by MooseMan on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:16 pm

Can we take a step back, based on what Reaper has said?

When you are fishing slack lines, with your indicators on the floor (Or laid on a little mat which seems to be the fashion at the moment) and you get a take on a running lead, the line is pulled "Through" the lead which is acting as a fixed point so you always get a positive line movement, that is to say the line is pulled out into the water, lifting the bobbin. Yes?

So what happens when the lead is fixed and the line can't run through it on a take?
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Re: Tight lines

Post by reaper on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:40 pm

No i wasnt hooking as many fish, the takes just wernt what i would call positive, you know the sort of thing where its shall i hit it or not, where as the tight lines were belters, no doubt about it.
It may just be thats the way it is with slack lines or something im doing or not doing but i dont have confidence in it. I definately think running leads are the way to go though.
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Re: Tight lines

Post by Elty on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:37 pm

thats odd. i have never noticed a difference between the types of takes i get between slack and tight lines.

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Re: Tight lines

Post by Kevin on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:49 pm

MooseMan wrote:Can we take a step back, based on what Reaper has said?

When you are fishing slack lines, with your indicators on the floor (Or laid on a little mat which seems to be the fashion at the moment) and you get a take on a running lead, the line is pulled "Through" the lead which is acting as a fixed point so you always get a positive line movement, that is to say the line is pulled out into the water, lifting the bobbin. Yes?

So what happens when the lead is fixed and the line can't run through it on a take?

With a light enough bobbin, the water itself acts as the pivot point Wink
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Re: Tight lines

Post by Bob on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:30 pm

I don't get it, if you have a slack line on a semi fixed lead and the fish runs towards how can you get any indication ?

The only way a slack line can work is by using a running lead, so that if a fish runs towards you the lead will work a a pivot point !!

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Re: Tight lines

Post by HAPPYANGLERALEX on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:38 am

Bob wrote:I don't get it, if you have a slack line on a semi fixed lead and the fish runs towards how can you get any indication ?

The only way a slack line can work is by using a running lead, so that if a fish runs towards you the lead will work a a pivot point !!

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slacklining for more sensitive carping.


slackline fishing will only work with a free easily running lead, no matter what way the fish runs the bobbin will rise.

however as there is no resistance the carp will not self hook, and will only be hooked by striking normally as it is running/bolting away from your rod.

if it runs towards your rod, a much faster strike to take up the slack line will be needed, but its direction will be unknown until you try to make contact, ie immediate contact-running away, no contact running towards you.

slackline carping can be interesting as opposed to self hooking fixed lead carping.

slacklining works best on very still water, ie no surface disturbance and no under tow.

it is an extremely sensitive way of carping, for carp that are resistance shy.





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Re: Tight lines

Post by Elty on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:10 pm

i remember jim gibbinsons book stating that he has seen virtually no one fish slack lines efficiently. most people think that the line will pull through a lead fairly easily when in fact it doesnt. i cant remember the exact details but he was advocating boring out a 5 oz lead and fishing with literally feet of slack line beneath the rod tip for you to be fishing slack lines efficiently.

to be honest the only reason i fish slack lines is to keep my lines low in the water.

if the set up you have is not self hooking then you are expecting the fish to keep that bait in its mouth the whole time it takes you to get to the rod and set the hook properly, and that is just pure chance.. and i cant see how this can be a truely resistance free set up when you consider the weight of the indicator (even a very light one) and resistance of a baitrunner. the fish will feel some level of resistance and if the rig is not self hooking then it will just spit the hook.

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Re: Tight lines

Post by HAPPYANGLERALEX on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:51 pm

Elty wrote:i remember jim gibbinsons book stating that he has seen virtually no one fish slack lines efficiently. most people think that the line will pull through a lead fairly easily when in fact it doesnt. i cant remember the exact details but he was advocating boring out a 5 oz lead and fishing with literally feet of slack line beneath the rod tip for you to be fishing slack lines efficiently.

to be honest the only reason i fish slack lines is to keep my lines low in the water.

if the set up you have is not self hooking then you are expecting the fish to keep that bait in its mouth the whole time it takes you to get to the rod and set the hook properly, and that is just pure chance.. and i cant see how this can be a truely resistance free set up when you consider the weight of the indicator (even a very light one) and resistance of a baitrunner. the fish will feel some level of resistance and if the rig is not self hooking then it will just spit the hook.

OR, just a pva bag-hook bait-no lead-slackline-no bobbins-just loose line laying on area.
nil resistance carp takes in bait is unfazed, moves on, taking line up to no bobbin area, where loose line is seen to move this method was used many years ago by early carpers, ie Richard Walker.

its an alternative way of carping as opposed to self hooking traps.

as for getting to the rod Rolling Eyes you should be on it at all times (daylight) Very Happy
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Re: Tight lines

Post by Bob on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:36 pm

Off course you need a heavy enough lead to to make it work, the whole princible of a slack line rig is in the lead not moving or only moving slightly.

It's the weight of the lead and the line combined that sets the hook and this was the way it was conceived back in the 1970tys.

There was No such thing as Fixed or Semi Fixed lead rigs, all rigs were running, as Jim wrote in one off his books, it was the weight of the line, plus the lead that set the hook.

The problem then was that baits were set on the hook or cut and put on the back of the shank .

The Hair had not been invented then, but when it was it made for far better hook ups using running leads, Mitchell 300s and revolving handles.

There is nothing new in Fishing !!

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Re: Tight lines

Post by Elty on Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:22 pm

HAPPYANGLERALEX wrote:

OR, just a pva bag-hook bait-no lead-slackline-no bobbins-just loose line laying on area.
nil resistance carp takes in bait is unfazed, moves on, taking line up to no bobbin area, where loose line is seen to move this method was used many years ago by early carpers, ie Richard Walker.

its an alternative way of carping as opposed to self hooking traps.

as for getting to the rod Rolling Eyes you should be on it at all times (daylight) Very Happy

But that's a rarity in itself. How many times did fish pick up the bait and spit it out before hitting the lead in the underwater DVDs? Plenty of times.

If it wasn't for the fact that fishes momentum makes them tighten up the hook link and engage the lead before they have figured out whether or not the bait has a hook attached I would say that a lot of carp would get away with it ten times more than they do. I think The ability for a rig to be self hooking is one of the reasons that so many more carp get caught now-a-days. Anglers don't have to be fixed to a float or twitcher hitting for 10 constantly. Self hooking has made fishing more automatic/easier so more people are doing it.

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Re: Tight lines

Post by HAPPYANGLERALEX on Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:25 pm

Elty wrote:
HAPPYANGLERALEX wrote:

OR, just a pva bag-hook bait-no lead-slackline-no bobbins-just loose line laying on area.
nil resistance carp takes in bait is unfazed, moves on, taking line up to no bobbin area, where loose line is seen to move this method was used many years ago by early carpers, ie Richard Walker.

its an alternative way of carping as opposed to self hooking traps.

as for getting to the rod Rolling Eyes you should be on it at all times (daylight) Very Happy

But that's a rarity in itself. How many times did fish pick up the bait and spit it out before hitting the lead in the underwater DVDs? Plenty of times.

If it wasn't for the fact that fishes momentum makes them tighten up the hook link and engage the lead before they have figured out whether or not the bait has a hook attached I would say that a lot of carp would get away with it ten times more than they do. I think The ability for a rig to be self hooking is one of the reasons that so many more carp get caught now-a-days. Anglers don't have to be fixed to a float or twitcher hitting for 10 constantly. Self hooking has made fishing more automatic/easier so more people are doing it.



and that's the difference in carp fishing, do they hook themselves, ie. a trap, or does the carper hook them?

its the difference between, say, floating dog biscuits or bottom float fishing, where the carper hooks the carp on the take as opposed to the "lead" hooking the carp and the carper reels in.

On a recent carping trip, on the bottom, I had one run, but the guy in the next swim, floating 12ins from top, had a good 15 takes, landing most, hooking them himself.

self hooking carp, that's why a carper can be fast asleep in his bag and bivvy and still catch.

there are many ways to catch carp, at 150 yds on a fixed lead or under your rod tip in the reeds, free lining, and carpers can choose the one that they prefer, and why not, its all good fun:D

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Re: Tight lines

Post by Elty on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:06 pm

agreed.

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Re: Tight lines

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:25 pm

i tend to see slack lines as just another trend/fad as are chod rigs? - Frank W showed me a version of the chod over 10yrs ago using his high buoyancy pop ups

remember on the kids forum Keith M going on about fluid/tube dynamics trying to explain why slack lines really work?

load of piffle imo without any sound scientific basis?

i've been carping over 40 years and seen every trend/ fashion known to man and beast

and imo its a 'passing phase'

to read that some anglers spend upwards of 20 minutes trying to get their lines totally slack amazes me

on some waters i can often expect a pickup in that 20 minute window?

also in my younger years i've done diving - a single strand of weed off the lake bed can stop the line sinking - and bars etc - tell me another fairy story?

get in the water - use a snorkel and see what your lines really look like on the lake bed?

i'll give Danny F and friends a lot of credit - they use semi slack lines but often use 2/3 backleads - the only real way to go

and Danny often says its to avoid fish picking up other lines

see the Walthamstow episode with Tom?

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Re: Tight lines

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:56 pm

also the chod rigs seems to be the answer to all things 'carpy'?

it may have its uses in some circumstances but again i will refer to the much maligned Korda vids - Danny and other keep repeating that the chod is not the rig for heavy weed

but i see it used time and again in horrendous weed

one guy even told me is was designed for heavy weed but Korda are keeping it quite - but as he knows Danny he has the inside 'edge' - lol!

bit like flavours - say Nash recommends 5ml per 6 egg mix - some muppets says they are keeping it 'quiet' and it needs 50ml in reality?

now, i know Kev and he's an asute businessman - if he could recommend 1litre per 6 egg mix he would quite rightly do so!!

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Re: Tight lines

Post by TCarper on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:38 am

Slack lines will lose you more fish in the long run, except for one particular rig, a free running naked chod. Any set up where you are relying on the lead to hook a fish, a slack line will work against you giving a carp the opportunity to use the lead as a pivot to get rid of the hook that tension in your line negates from happening so much. A free running naked chod works on a complete different set of mechanics. Fished slack on flouro, with the hook bait resting up to 15 foot away from the lead, when a fish picks the bait up, it will move into their mouth very easily with no resistance. Yet there is nothing for them to use as a pivot to get rid of the hook as any movement just takes up slack going back towards bobbin. This really does stop them getting rid, a sharpened hook, no resistance to get rid with, they bolt.

I fished Walthamstow 2/3 for the first time last Winter Nick on a Nov-March Winter ticket, a very silty lake (up to 4 foot of silt in places), made for the long running naked chod. I used no back leads, just very slack lines, and fished where no one else does effectively, in the black stuff. I ripped it to bits to be frank with some good bait application & that free running rig.

That same rig works very very well in weed to, whatever Danny says. There is nothing else where you can effectively fish into a 6 foot weed bed like you can with that rig. On LC it is akin to fishing a normal lead setup, far to much resistance. Naked and free running, it is probably the most devastating rig I have cast out over a bed of boiled bait.


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Re: Tight lines

Post by reaper on Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:06 pm

TCarper can you describe how you construct your free running naked chod

cheers Paul
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Re: Tight lines

Post by WOZ1 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:37 pm

Elty wrote:this is how i started out fishing. caught what seemed like my fair share along the way.

i like fact that when the fish hit the baitrunner it almost acts like an additional bolt affect.

I was exactly the same when I started!!...

Then I started to buy the rags, in fact I think I bought every single carp magazine going as the addiction soon hooked me firmly in the bottom lip!!... After a year or so of reading my ''carp bibles'' I could see that I was reading to far in to my rigs, bait, line tension etc.. and seemed to be doing more harm than good with thinking to much as everything the magazines had said would contradict itself or what I was doing in one way or another... For example you would read things like this: chopped baits are better than round ones as carp get used to round baits and are more wary of them : then they would contradict themselves by saying that as evryone put in round baits the fish would come to see them as a food source.....

It was the same for tight lines and slack lines for me, would a carp really feel the 0.01mm difference in a tight line as they say the thinner the line the less it will spook a fish, are the fish really that clever to be spooked off a line that is 0.01mm thicker??....

I just have my lines slack now for a confidence thing as I have been brain washed... unless I am snag fishing or fishing tight to a far margin/island.....
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