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Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

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Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by Bob on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:06 am

Over the years I have targetted every type of Coarse fish and have achived reasonable size P.B.s in most species.

But how much is that down to knowing the Species, decent water craft, a fair knowledge of the methods required to catch the target species and Luck.

In my humble opinion I think LUCK plays a huge part in the catching of any fish ?

Your thoughts.

Bob
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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by karmalite on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:41 pm

The old saying is you make your own luck and 90% of the time i agree with that. If you have a high level of skill and knowledge you will find that situations that others would struggle with will see you succeed.
To those on the outside it would appear at first glance to be luck.
However, that other 10% is always going to be a factor.
If you imagine fishing for big chub. Your skill in locating fish and presenting bait is going to push the odds in your favor, but there is -imo- nothing you can do to force a fish to take your bait. Therefore, whether it is the 3lb chub or the 7lb chub that takes your bait is luck.

Carp fishing is slightly different in that individual fishes habits can be determined in some circumstances. That means presenting a bait to a specific fish multiple times is an option that takes part of the luck out of the equation, you're stacking the odds in your favor but luck still plays a part.
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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by Bob on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:27 pm

karmalite

There is some truth in the Carp thing, if you fish a lake long enough there's a decent chance of catching the carp you are after.

But going back to Chub, I have caught quite a lot of 7lb chub, none of them bigger than 7lbs 3ozs, the odds should have been on my side to catch a really Big Chub fishing the Lea, but it's never happened and I use to target Chub right through the winter months.

On the plus side I did catch a 35lbs 9ozs Mirror on the Chub gear, whilst fishing on the Lea Navigation.

Now that must be Luck ?

Bob
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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by Danny on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:46 pm

I also think with regards to some of the carp lads, if they sit there for 10 days then theres a good chance the carp are gonna feed which they have the advantage over anglers like myself who gets to only do days and the odd weekends now days..

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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by karmalite on Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:29 pm

Bob wrote:karmalite

There is some truth in the Carp thing, if you fish a lake long enough there's a decent chance of catching the carp you are after.

But going back to Chub, I have caught quite a lot of 7lb chub, none of them bigger than 7lbs 3ozs, the odds should have been on my side to catch a really Big Chub fishing the Lea, but it's never happened and I use to target Chub right through the winter months.

On the plus side I did catch a 35lbs 9ozs Mirror on the Chub gear, whilst fishing on the Lea Navigation.

Now that must be Luck ?

Bob

I used to fish the upper lea in Hertfordshire for many years and caught quite a few carp as accidental captures whilst fishing for chub.
I always considered that to be lucky but only in the sense of I appreciated the opportunity.
The reality is I fished so much it was practically a certainty I would catch carp occasionally.

As to your chub, 7lb is still huge. If you are talking 8lb or 9lb they are, I think, so rare that you would consider yourself lucky to have caught one. But, again the reality is if you're in the right place, at the right time, doing the right things your chances are markedly improved. You are relying less on luck and more on skill and skill will, over time, out fish luck.

As i said i think luck (chance) plays a part but i don't think it's a substitute for talent/skill/training/experience.



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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by TAB on Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:05 pm

Great thread Bob, and Karmalite, I agree with you on the make your own luck factor (perseverance pays off).
Luck I think does play a big part in so many ways. I have spent a hell of a lot of time stalking carp from the margins and in that situation you can (to a degree) select the fish you want to catch, but like you said about the chub, when you have a bait out in the water it is pretty much a lottery as to which fish picks the bait up. And look at the perch record, caught by a schoolboy not necessarily targeting big perch, that is pure luck!
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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by Bob on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:00 pm

karmalite

I'm presuming the anglers in question has the skills to catch fish of a choosen species.

The luck comes in the capture of exceptional specimens, yes you can put yourself in the right place, fish the right bait, using the correct tackle, but you cannot make that Record or P B fish take your bait !

As an example I saw the now record chub in the summer and targeted it last winter, I caught a number of 7s, but my name was not on that fish.

You could say I did not have the skills or the bait, but I believe I did, it was just down to right swim on the right day.

And Luck Smile

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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by karmalite on Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:43 am

karmalite wrote:
If you imagine fishing for big chub. Your skill in locating fish and presenting bait is going to push the odds in your favor, but there is -imo- nothing you can do to force a fish to take your bait. Therefore, whether it is the 3lb chub or the 7lb chub that takes your bait is luck.

Bob wrote:
The luck comes in the capture of exceptional specimens, yes you can put yourself in the right place, fish the right bait, using the correct tackle, but you cannot make that Record or P B fish take your bait !

As you see I don't disagree, I simply think that if you could measure luck as percentage of the factors that take place in order to catch a specimen fish the better an angler you are the lower the percentage. TAB's example of that Perch is suggestive of a high percentage of luck. If the lad who caught it had never cast a bait before you'd be talking 99% - you still have to get off your xxxx and go fishing.
If he'd been fishing before you can bring that percentage down a notch.
Someone who's spent 20 years chasing specimen Perch and had done their homework may be it was only 20%.
Sticking numbers on it is obviously subjective but in order to understand something it's often best quantified.


Last edited by karmalite on Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by Kevin on Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:54 pm

"the harder I work, the luckier I get"

Luck is always the factor that ultimately decides success (you can fish perfectly and never catch the fish you are after) but the better the angler, the less they have to rely on luck, and the more consistent they will be...
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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by TAB on Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:17 pm

When I land a fish and the hook is out in the net I think blimey, that was lucky.
When I lose one at the net I curse and swear and want to throw the rod in Laughing
Sometimes you get a little bit of luck and you cant help thinking I deserved that.
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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by Bob on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:16 pm

You make your own luck ?

Well yes you do by fishing places that hold the fish you are after, but there might be 50 x 7lb Chub in the Lea Valley and say 6 x 8lb Chub and 1 x 9lb Chub in the Lea Valley.

The chances are, given time and effort you will catch a 7lb Chub, the Luck comes when an 8 or a 9 comes along and takes your bait.

Another example would be a Pike I weighed at over 30lb 3 times, but when I caught that same Pike, it weighed 28 and 291/2 lbs.

It was Luck (Bad Luck) that the fish was down in weight ?

Luck plays a huge part in fishing and should never be ignored.

Bob
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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by karmalite on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:24 am

Bob wrote:You make your own luck ?

Well yes you do by fishing places that hold the fish you are after, but there might be 50 x 7lb Chub in the Lea Valley and say 6 x 8lb Chub and 1 x 9lb Chub in the Lea Valley.

The chances are, given time and effort you will catch a 7lb Chub, the Luck comes when an 8 or a 9 comes along and takes your bait.

Another example would be a Pike I weighed at over 30lb 3 times, but when I caught that same Pike, it weighed 28 and 291/2 lbs.

It was Luck (Bad Luck) that the fish was down in weight ?

Luck plays a huge part in fishing and should never be ignored.

Bob

The thing is Bob, if you truly believe in luck, then you have to accept what luck actually is. The analogy of a lady who personifies luck is a good one. She bestows her gifts at random and there is no rhyme or reason as to who receives them or why. The deserving are equally as likely to benefit as the undeserving, the lucky thief who avoids capture, the kindly man who leaves late for work one day in his life and gets hit by a bus.

As it is completely random you might as well ignore it.
It's outside of your control.
You don't know when it might happen.
You may or may not deserve it.

I actually think the idea of luck detracts from an achievement. It basically says you're not responsible for the outcome. Terry Hearn has just been lucky all these years.

Fundamentally, I guess I don't really believe in luck. I believe in chance. Chance is quantifiable and does not need to be attributed to a some supernatural power, it's the complex product of complex systems.
Luck has too many overtones of a force - the lady - making decisions. You might as well say Santa Claus made it happen.
If you carry on down that road you end up nodding at magpies whilst playing football in your wife's knickers.

Santa hates magpies by the way Razz

Good thread Very Happy

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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by Bob on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:08 pm

Kermalite

I reckon there are two types of people in the world, those who think everything is predictable and you only get there by your own efforts and those who are romantic's, who believe that Luck plays a part in everything.

That of course includes women, ask any woman which type they prefere and I bet you, it will be the romantic's.

Thats why I have no Money Smile

As for Terry, he's luckier than most, apart from being a bit Special when it comes to fishing !!

Bob
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Re: Location, location, location or is down to Luck ?

Post by karmalite on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:38 pm

Bob wrote:Kermalite

I reckon there are two types of people in the world, those who think everything is predictable and you only get there by your own efforts and those who are romantic's, who believe that Luck plays a part in everything.

That of course includes women, ask any woman which type they prefere and I bet you, it will be the romantic's.

Thats why I have no Money Smile

As for Terry, he's luckier than most, apart from being a bit Special when it comes to fishing !!

Bob

You're right on the women front; I managed to make one girl at work question her whole life by explaining that the her theory of one true love was total BS given the number of people who married people within a 10 mile radius of their home or work. Fundamentally all that is required is personal hygiene and proximity, alcohol can be useful. Romance is for the deluded, doesn't mean i don't know how to make it work for me Wink
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